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MS Suspension Problem

Discussion in 'General' started by Soybi, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    I have a new MS kit with suspension setup and black springs. The problem is, whenever I try to flex or twist it a little, the gear/motor cover always snaps off which is also the same whenever it jumps on slopes. any advice how i can reinforce it?
    ill update the post with pic later.
     
  2. Chris Lee Design

    Chris Lee Design Aluminum Lock Nut

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    I'll try my best to explain.

    The 4 screws that hold the springs in place. lets call them spring retention screws. If you pick 2 of them, like the 2 front ones. You can make a carbon fiber tab that swivels over the battery and the little plastic clip part that keeps popping off. A lot of ways to solve this problem although my initial thought is this shouldn't be happening in the first place. I've never had a problem with my motor cover popping off by twisting or jumps, make sure you have your motor mounts pushed in all the way. Also, how much are you twisting? and is that amount of twisting ever going to happen in a real life racing situation?
     
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  3. Drew

    Drew Carbon Fiber Dust

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    I'd go with the reinforced MS motor cover which is held on by screws if you're having issues. There are a number of reasons the cover can be popping, for example if the car suffers a down flex on the front bumper the cover can pop, or if it's taking a large impact to the front and the bumper flexes up it can cause the motor cover to bend causing it to pop out, or it could be damaged/rounded tabs or mounting point causing the issue.
    Like Chris said, if you're using screws you can add an frp tab to lock the cover down or you could get the reinforced MS motor cover which is screwed on anyway.
     
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  4. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    I think there's something wrong with your chassis. Either the way you cut the chassis or the way you assemble the chassis itself (sometimes the rear terminals in MS weren't properly inserted or it's not in the appropriate position when you're installing the gear cover) . Even with normal gear cover, normally an impact with a regular slope won't knock the gear cover out that easily. Usually it will came off if you are landing from a high jump section like Proud Mountain for example. Also, it shouldn't came off if you try to flex the chassis.

    Let's take look at your car =)
     
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  5. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    thanks for the input guys. ill upload the pic soon. I'm currently at work so i asked my wife to take a pic of it and email it to me so i can upload it here.

    and yeah I'm already thinking of reinforcing it with an FRP tab to put on the screws but I'm worried about something. I was told that both FRP and HG carbon conducts electricity so I'm worried that it might help in draining batteries which can cause a lot of problem since most of the local races here in Philippines is Endurance race.

    Yes supposedly the cover should not come off with just slopes or little twists but it really does come off easily. i used the orange motor cover, nose and tail then black center chassis which is also the lightweight version.

    here is the pic i have at the moment but it is just the rear and other parts not exactly the motor cover.

    upload_2019-1-9_14-52-18.png

    upload_2019-1-9_15-18-10.png


    this is the part i messed up but i dont think it affects the motor cover.
    im gonna change the center piece chassis since i cut it too much that the battery can come off as well if it jumps too much on the tracks. my temporary solution was the tamiya tape but it will spend alot of tamiya tapes so ill just change it anyway.

    upload_2019-1-9_15-19-13.png

    the suspension works well with black springs. i might change it with silver spring to check if it will affect the motor cover which i think it wont.
     
  6. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    my wife cant take the whole motore cover pic so ill do it later but this is the best she got at the moment.

    upload_2019-1-9_16-9-45.png


    i think imma upload the pic without the cowling later
    and a clip how it is removed easily.
     
  7. tarutaru

    tarutaru Screw

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    Perhaps it is possible the cover pops off due to the way you attached the back damper piece. Can't really tell from the pic, but when the damper moves up does the tabs dig into the motor cover?

    Assuming all other problems can be eliminated, I'm thinking its combination of that movement of the damper tabs digging into the motor cover along with the heavily cut out battery section with no support pieces on the bottom causes the motor cover the come off.
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Carbon Fiber Dust

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    I don't know about you guys, but I've had a dozen of MS-L Chassis and it always feels like there's something off with them. I think the moulds for the MS-L are not as good as the moulds for the stock MS chassis, I usually find there's like a slight angle to either the front or rear bumper, enough that when I stand it vertically it really bugs me. I've also noticed that the covers tend to come off easier on the MS-L chassis also, compared with stock chassis.

    But I think your biggest issue is definitely the chassis flex. Cutting the battery bay like that and having no other reinforcement down the middle is going to pop the motor cover a lot due to it's ability to twist and flex without restraint. The rear damper arms shouldn't be an issue, but it would still be a good idea to trim them down a little around the screws so it's not hitting the cover like tarutaru suggests.
     
  9. Corweena

    Corweena Spacer

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    Yeah, how the chassis is cut is probably the biggest factor. On a suspension car, you really don't need that much twist in the center. Thats what the suspension is for.

    Here are my center MS portions. One is cut for light weight, the other is cut out completely for a battery drop, but it has the carbon popsicle to retain its strength and shape.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    If the tohoku damper carbon arms weren't making any contact with the gear cover, then I don't think that's the source of the problem. I think it's more into the cut in the mid chassis. The mid chassis can twist and flexed too much (the center unit itself, not the spring of the MS flex mechanism).

    If you still want to reduce the weight of your car, you can use my friend's car as a reference. You should copy his light center unit.

    Watch it here:
     
  11. Drew

    Drew Carbon Fiber Dust

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    This car of mine has a similarly cut battery area, but it's also reinforced with frp which is in a position to lower the batteries. This car also has no issues with the cover popping off.

    IMG_20171019_173620.jpg
     
  12. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    Neat! Btw bro, have you tried aligning the nose-center-tail unit? I can see that your center unit it's a bit on a higher level. I used that method back then, but now those units are on the same level. I can feel a better acceleration from it. I think that's because the position of the gears are on the default position, just like an MS chassis before the cut to make the flex system. Perhaps you want to give it a try :)
     
  13. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    Hi guys experts pros~ again thanks for replying to my query. I've already bought a new MS-L center chassis to replace my current chassis, ive tested my MS again today witout fixing the issue while using eneloop white batts and fujitsu black batts. so far batts doesnt comeoff. after few perfect laps with slope and almost 90degree bank (already completed 3 laps anyway), it suddenly jumped off the track and when i checked, motor cover came off. before i change my center chassis ill try to fix it first.

    anyway i thought it was the rear damper as well hitting the motor cover but it isnt. And now im thinking that it might really because of the way i cut the center chassis whuch is too much and it also cause too much flex with black spring as well. ill try to reinforce with FRP on top of motor cover and change black to silver spring.

    and again it is not advisable for me to put reinforcement under the battery since i play and join endurance type of race, and battery gets low easily because the FRP/Carbon can conduct electricty as well.
     
  14. Drew

    Drew Carbon Fiber Dust

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    If you've built it right, there won't be any frp/carbon touching any where along the electrical relay anyway. I think we'd all here agree that reinforcing the center rather than replacing and remodelling the center chassis would be much more beneficial. Not only would you be strengthening against the flex, you'd also be able to drop the batteries to gain a lower center of gravity. You really should be thinking of the car keeping on the track and winning rather than if everyone keeps CO and having to rerun the race possibly multiple times!
     
  15. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    Nowadays, most of Japanese Racers are not using those mid frame anymore. It's kinda hard to explain it through text and I've already made a plan to make a video about my thoughts and analysis between those two type. But I prefer one without mid frame actually. That's why me and my friends here never use those mid frame anymore.

    And I don't recommend you to use the silver spring because the shock absorbing mechanism will be disturbed due to the stiff characteristic of that silver spring. But yeah, it's good if you wanna try them out first. That way you'll be able to compare the run between those two types of spring.

    Good luck with the new chassis bro!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
    Soybi likes this.
  16. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    thats one of the case as well why i dont want to use popsicle support for suspension. due to updated jap setups i cant see any suspension with frames and ive also discovered that batteries are being drained by the popsicle as it is conducting electricity as well. which is a no no for me as i participate on an endurance type of race where in once you submitted your car, you cant get it until its your turn to race and when you win they will put it to the next heat until you can reach finals without changing batts.
     
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  17. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    Here is the clear pic of my ms chassis motor cover.

    [​IMG]



    And im gonna use this 4chips to fix the problem. Gon update the results later on

    [​IMG]
     
  18. ltr74

    ltr74 FRP Popsicle

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    Your batteries are not draining because of touching the carbon popsicle. You need to have positive and negative connected together to cause drain over such a short period. This drain is called a short and will cause your batteries to get very hot very quickly and damage the battery and probably the car. The voltage may drop a little as it stabilizes but the energy levels stored in the battery will remain the same. Everybody will be experiencing the same voltage stabilization.
     
  19. NewbieGuy

    NewbieGuy Washer

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    Sorry if this is a slight foolish question, my google skills are weak in Tamiya. When you say mid-frame do you mean MA/MS chassis?
     
  20. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    its MS chassis. and this is the mid frame he was talking about. its for customize MS suspension

    upload_2019-1-15_14-55-58.png

    upload_2019-1-15_14-56-49.png
     
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